We are joined today by Michael Heltzen, the CEO of eXoZymes. And it's all about making the future of medicine faster, closer to home, and also cleaner. I think this is something that has been on our mind, but we don't know how to really get there. So now we have Michael here. Michael, I'm so glad that you are talking to us about that because this is something I've always wondered about. Michael, you get these capsules and you wonder, okay, I know what's in it. I don't know what's around it. Welcome to the show. Michael Heltzen Thank you very much. I look forward to talking about this. Michael Heltzen Yes. So tell us a little bit about your company and what motivated you to do this. You were somehow obviously worried about that the way right now medicine is delivered to us and supplements is not up to par. Michael Heltzen So basically, I don't want to take the credit because there's a whole team, right? And there's especially the technical co-founder team that started at UCLA, the university where they basically were trying to find new ways of making ingredients and supplements and these natural product inspired molecules to help people. Michael Heltzen And there has been a limitation on how humankind have been able to get hold of these molecules. Michael Heltzen As a lot of people are aware of, like we started by harvesting things out in nature, finding something in a plant that we could isolate in some way to get that molecule out. Michael Heltzen And then later on, we started getting oil and gas chemistry called petrochemistry, where a lot of things can be derived from basically you break down the oil or the gas into its components, and then you build with that. Michael Heltzen That's to some people's surprise. Michael Heltzen It's like half of the medicine in the world today comes from that source, oil and gas. Michael Heltzen And that is obviously where there is a big movement towards can we get back closer to nature again? Michael Heltzen Can we get closer to the natural sources? Michael Heltzen But it's not because of bad will that we haven't been able to harvest enough from nature. Michael Heltzen It's because of limitations such as if the molecule we are seeking is only existing in trace amounts, like tiny, tiny, tiny amounts in a plant, let's say a tree, then we can end up in these absurd situations where we have to cut down all that kind of tree to get enough for one year and the next year there won't be any trees. So like it's practically impossible or inaccessible to harvest from nature. Michael Heltzen And there's been this whole conversation about could there be an in-between these two worlds where we still use the natural power without using oil and gas as the backbone, but at the same time gives us the kind of scale that oil and gas with respect for that area has brought to the world. So you can argue that modern life comes from either us harvesting in nature or oil and gas and this in-between space. Michael Heltzen And what is the power of nature? Michael Heltzen And what is the power of nature? Where does that ability to make all of these fantastic things? Michael Heltzen It basically comes from the small enzymes. Michael Heltzen So biochemistry is… Michael Heltzen Hence the name of your company, Exozymes. Michael Heltzen 'exozymes' is basically a reference to that an enzyme that lives inside of nature is what we have taken out. Exo means out. So an enzyme is an inside reaction and exozyme is us running that outside of living biology. But the same way as nature is doing it. That allows us to start building compounds and ingredients that was otherwise not possible to make at scale. Amazing. So how do you go about it? So now here you have identified the problem. How are you solving it? Michael Heltzen So in the very beginning, it was more of an academic exercise at the university. There is this fundamental problem with not being able to scale when we use enzymes. It was a very long journey, development, R&D journey, to go from like this one enzyme does one chemical reaction. But we need these 10 chemical reactions to happen for us to get to the end product. Let me just explain how nature built things. It basically takes a feedstock. Think of it as, for example, sugar takes that feedstock and then breaks very precise building blocks off that feedstock. So that's the breakdown enzymes. So you have a number of breakdown enzymes that makes the building blocks. And then you have the buildup enzymes that puts those building blocks specifically together. So you end up with the end product. That's how nature does chemistry, biochemistry, and makes all of these natural products. So we basically, as humankind, already knew how to take one enzyme out of nature and make it work. People have actually heard about these things sometimes as enzymes that participates in different processes, including now when you wash your clothes, there's actually enzymes in the detergent that helps breaking down. It's breakdown enzyme, breaking down things like fat and oily stuff and stains. So people have kind of, in the R&D community, worked with enzymes for a long time, but nobody could run it at the full scale. And that's basically where the research group that ended up being the co-founder group of our company sat down and said, like, that's what we want to become experts at. That's why we can do what we can do today. So tell us about what your company is doing right now. What is your focus? Yes. So as a technology platform company, that's a lot of working in R&D mode. Going into product mode is where it gets really interesting because that's where you get to make an impact on the world, get to get product out in the hands of people. So the first product coming off of this new biotech technology platform is basically a small molecule called NCT. So that's a small molecule you find in, for example, hemp seeds or black pepper. But again, in three amounts. So you have to eat a roomful worth of black pepper to get enough NCT for one dose. So there's no practical way of getting it from nature. You can't eat that much black pepper and you can't even if you're isolating it from a cost perspective and a practical perspective. That's inaccessible. So that's a good example of a small molecule. Why is this molecule so interesting? Well, it helps accelerate metabolism. So it's basically been shown by other researchers, not us, that when you have this small molecule, then what turns fat into energy, that's the metabolism, is accelerated. That's what we all want. It's the same thing with turmeric. I always wondered, why is black pepper in turmeric extract? Because it actually is making it more powerful, more useful. So certain things are making sure that whatever you're taking, it is getting into your system faster and then better absorbed. Is that kind of the system also that you're going by? So it is these natural product inspired molecules that we're talking about. And you're right, historically it comes from a lot of spices. That is, again, spices often, not often, it's almost always a breakdown of something planned. So it's kind of like this journey back to nature. But you can end up in situations where you do get enough end product if you harvest the plant and isolate. But in many cases, you don't get enough. So then we end up in this funny situation where we humankind are aware of a benefit of a supplement, for example, but it's inaccessible to people because it's either literally practically inaccessible or it's from a financial point of view, it's too expensive to isolate. And that's where we are building these systems where we basically sit down and study, for example, black pepper. How can black pepper make this NCT molecule that is a highly valuable molecule that people would really like to get access to? How does black pepper do it? And then we take that as a blueprint. And it's pretty sophisticated stuff we do. So we sit down, we study the genetics. What is the DNA that codes for these enzymes inside of the plant? And we take that DNA and we look at it with AI and we said, like, can AI help us figure out how we can build such a system outside of the plants? We don't have to grow the whole thing to get the end product, but we can basically just run that biochemistry that nature have invented. And it is very intriguing that it actually works. It's the ability to sit down and understand genetics up to the enzymes and the enzymes then builds the end product. And that's the kind of impact that I sometimes wish the AI conversation would be a little bit more about because I do agree we should be very careful. And there are scary things on the horizon with AI for sure. But there's also these niche applications that very few people talk about that is undeniably going to help humankind get access to new natural resources and make supplements and with time medicines that will benefit people. So that's what I'm excited about. Yeah, I always say mindful, being mindful, not fearful. That's always a good approach. So now let's talk about how you can affect the global chain supply, because what we saw during COVID that rapidly, suddenly there was shortage. There was just an absolute shock among people that I couldn't get certain medications. How can you influence that problem? Because there's already talk about the next pandemic is just around the corner. I don't even want to think about it, but we always got to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. How can you influence that? Yeah. So big picture first, you're absolutely right. Manufacturing had gone from a generation worth of making it as global as possible for cost savings reasons. But a lot of places in the world, if not everywhere, and I'm starting to think about, I want local, close to the end consumer manufacturing. So this nearshoring or unshoring conversation is very much the kind of biomanufacturing that we're doing, where people are saying, we don't want to just repeat the petrochemistry and the oil and gas kind of ways it's done right now. Other places in the world, if we're moving that back to the US or back to Europe for that matter. Becoming independent, you know, like not making us dependent on one country that seems to have been a total monopoly game on this one. So we need to be self-sufficient. We need to be able to have our own supply, produce it. So that's where you come in. Getting us the next generation of, in our case, biomanufacturing is very important. And we have been recognized by actually US government grants that have been given to us because it's an important area to basically make. And of course, we don't want to just like copy paste the old system. We want to make a new generation that is more effective, that is better and allows us to build products that otherwise was impossible. Love it, Michael. I mean, this is a fantastic endeavor that you took on and something that has been on so many people's mind, but you have identified the problem and actually are solving it. So what are your plans for 26, looking ahead, 27? So right now we're heads down and very focused on bringing NCT to market. That's our first born, so to say, our flagship product that is right now being scaled up. We have just entered into a partnership with a company called Curia that is going to mass manufacture for us. So think of us as the R&D facility and people building the system and finding out how they work. And then we can hand them over a little bit like you can hand over if you have figured out how to brew a new beer or something like that. You can take the recipe. You know all the ingredients. You have that whole package worth of manufacturing. That's basically what we as a company built. And then we can hand it over to people that have some much bigger facilities where they can run it over and over and over again. So this is how we go from this very innovative way of breaking into new opportunity and then at the same time get it out on a scale because the invention doesn't really matter until it starts making positive impact for people. Fascinating business. Much needed. One of the great problem solvers right now, I would say, because this is something that so far has been very much neglected also in the narrative, in the news narrative. So I think that you're going to have a lot of success with this and happy consumers. That's the plan and the hope. And I think you're right that we are addressing a mega trend where people are starting to realize it's not an optimal plan just to say, I'll just wait until I get sick from something and then some doctor or some medicine will then cure me. It's much smarter to say, let me be preventative. Let me stay healthy so I don't get into the trouble that are so hard to fix. And this whole journey of people starting to take care of their own health, you see that in many different niches. Self-care. Self-care. That's a big code word right now, you know. And it's an important word. It's so simple, but it's actually sometimes not easy for people to implement in their lifestyle. But it's so important and I love it that it has become a real thing. I think people are starting to realize that we talk a lot about investing in the future and so on. Yeah. Forget to invest in ourselves and stay healthy. What does it all matter? Like if you end up putting all your money into maybe some great investments, but you run out of your own time, then it's all for nothing. I think it's like the airline principle. When the oxygen mask comes down first, you need to put it on yourself so you're okay and then you can take care of others. I think that's the right principle. Exactly. If you are not well, if you cannot function 100%, you cannot do anything and not take care of others, including children, whoever is dependent on you. So I think this is a great principle. You need to be okay first. And if you then translate that into kind of like some of the really big things that are happening in healthcare, if you, for example, think about GLP-1s where people are saying, you know what? Staying leaner, longer has a lot of like indirect effects that are healthy for me. Okay, let me take that journey. Of course, that's a little bit of a challenge at the same time because you are now getting very dependent on one medicine and some people can't tolerate the medicine. It's a medicine that slows down the signal for appetite, but also slows down other signals for some people, bowel movement, muscle growth and other things. So there's a lot of conversations about if the optimal way of doing such, at that point, it's treatments and therefore regulated medicine, is that a combination of different molecules. And right now, probably the biggest conversation in that whole space is what they have nicknamed GLP-3s. So it's GLP-1 plus a couple of other things. And that whole ability to, can we, for example, both turn down the hunger signal, but also turn up the metabolism and do other things that benefits that health journey. Yeah, and not lose muscle mass because that has been the problem with many of these treatments is that you're losing a lot of muscle mass. And then you're ending up as they call skinny fat. You don't want to be that either. You know, you want to be lean, but looking fit. And so there's, yeah, there's, it's a great complexity when it comes to certain medications. I love how you are addressing also the individual approach because that is the future of medicine, period. We cannot just prescribe medication to everybody the same. It is going to be more and more tailored. And that is where AI actually can help to the individual DNA, the individual person, correct? I think that's a big benefit of AI that I wish people would think about some more. We will, with time, be able to have expert advisors on our phone, on any topic. So the individual should really see the opportunity in, and again, let me just disclaim, I also think there's challenges and problems, but we're going to have them no matter what. Make sure also to take the benefits. Don't pay the bill and then don't get the service from AI. There's a lot of opportunities for people to sit down and, for example, say, okay, how does NCT work on metabolism? Don't take my word for it. You can literally have an AI agent read all the research paper for you and then sit down and make that in a short, addressable way that fits you and your lifestyle. So that ability for us to start using knowledge for ourselves and therefore take really smart decisions. And of course, you should always listen to your doctor. But at the same time, there's a lot of knowledge out there that the individual person have not had practical access to. Maybe if they really went to the library on the internet and spent a lot of time, but like who has a lot of time to deal with just one part of your health journey. But now you can do that. You can make an AI agent study specific areas. I do it all the time. It's chat, GPT and me. Yes. I always cross-check and I always like to have different parts of information access. I think that's what most people are doing right now. They're listening to their doctor. Sometimes they get two opinions, three. Then they Google on top of that and they come to a conclusion. And at the end, they listen to themselves. They listen to their body. They know themselves. I think tuning in, a very important point. And I go, something feels off or this actually works for me. So it's the individualized approach. And that is a fascinating area that kind of leads back to where we started the conversation of like, of course, when people develop medicine back in the days, they did it with the best of intentions. They wanted to help cure certain diseases. And we as a society set up things like the FDA to make sure that it was done in the most thorough way. But because of that, it had to be based on the average of everything. And there's not a lot of people that are like exactly the average of everything. A hundred percent. And therefore being able to customize your journey, that is something I believe in as well. Same. Fantastic conversation, Michael. Would love to have you back and following the journey of your company. Great undertaking. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Thank you.